SPN 3.12 "Jus in Bello"

[the_milky_way]

I am cold. I think this is the first time I really am using the heater this winter. Meh.. probably because I am still a little tried.
Anyway... show. Oh show. Still so much with the issues huh? But I am not going to analyze it because it seems like it won't change... But this was pretty Oi.
Even with the issues this episode was okay as well...

NO ADDS!!! FINALLY!!!
Wheee... Damm Pussies Dolls

Oh Bela is screwing them over again but hey this time both of the boys don't come across as idiots. Cool.

She got police on them and the FBI. Great.

Hi Victor.

Thir faces say it all. So screwed.
Henricksen taking over the station... huh.. yes kinda typical for the FBI and for him.
So the Winchesters are high and first priority.

Okay imagery. The boys changed together shouldn't be so funny.

Dean being Dean is always funny.
Oh God the shuffling. *snorts*

A DeLouise! On SPN.
They are everywhere huh?

Yeah Dean you both don't swing that way... with Victor.

"Take a good look at Sam. You two will never see each other again."

Victor is kinda creepy right? That laughter? *shivers*

Vitor's face with the casefile is cool though.

Oh WTF. Dean.

Sam memorised the exorcism. WoW.

It's starting then.
This is going to be a massacer.
And they are closed in. Nice trap.

Oh don't promise something you can't hold up Victor.

Sammy using the puppy look to help Dean and to get the girl coming to them.

And Sammy is scaring me there. Really... what...
But yeah I know why.
Oh Dean don't joke. It's not really funny.

Oh... Okay.

Latin. Oh Sammy.

"I shot the Sherriff."

"Yeah but you didn't shoot the Deputy."
Oh my God Dean... I shouldn't be giggling about that.

Oh Victor so doesn't like it. Working with them.

Dean taking over and being all leader-like.

Freaky.

Tatoos, that's what they are for.
So does that mean we will see them around now? I am not really impressed. It's just.. for the fangirls?
I don't know..

The banter between Dean and Victor?
Machos facing off.

Victor sees his life as wasted now. Hmmm... but really, why... he did a good job after all. Don't really get ti.
"You only got your brother to go home to..."
*snorts*

Hi Ruby.

Lilith? Really. Are they for real.

Dean getting opissed at Sam for not telling him stuff.

So she will be up against Sam then..

Ruby being all bithcy in Sam's face about the Colt... that is nice to see. Still don't know why she is helping them or for what she is doing it.
But I have to say her scenes are getting better. Katie seems to be working on that. Good for her and the show. I like how Ruby handles Dean and tries to lure Sam.
It's not working right now because the brothers are still too close and Sam is still looking for Dean when it comes to really important decisions. Who knows how long this will
work....

Dude, really? A Virgin.
Are you kidding me?

Sam is scaring me there. And apparently is scaring Dean, too.
Sam wants to sacrifice an innocent girl? WTF?

Dean's plan might be suicidal but hell I'd take that any day over killing a Virgin....

What is Ruby up to?
She wants to get Sam right? She wants him to fight, be the leader?

Sam stays with Dean though... at least this time.

Sam!!

Victor and Dean fighting together.

Again Sam!!!

Taped Excorcism!!
Nice idea. Get them allin and hit Play!

Oh.. that is Lilith? Her eyes are white. And yeah so not the legend like. They made her a child? Really?
I don't really know what to think of that. I mean I get why, so that it will be even harder or Sam and Dean to fight them but seriously I can't really take that... I mean Kripke at least knows the legend and why that now?
Not having that many problems with it but it irks me a little. This is clichéd and well shows the issues they have with women because another one (and a real one after the legend) would have been what? Too much to take for the show? Afraid of not being able to write her right? I know this is harsh but really.. a little girl as the opposit to Sam??? Not sure how they want to pull that one off.

All dead.

They killed Victor. Guys, what is it with you and the Black antagonists ending up dead? convinient yes but not cool. I wanted him to stay.
I wish they would have kept him because it made it more realisitc... Dean and Sam being unted by the FBI. Come on, all the things they have done....
*sighs*

So Sam and Dean are dead now. Officially? It's the easy way out right? Does that mean there won't be any more police or FBI after them? *sighs*
It is really the easy way out.
Realistic? Well, not so much but.... we will see how that goes on and if they refer back to being dead in the new episodes.
It might be a disadvantage at some time.
I mean if they are found out how do they explain escaping the explosion and not being held accountable for that?
I should stop thinking about that I guess. No idea why I am a little miffed about that.

Damn Ruby knows how to work their conscience. Ouch.
I have to say I liked her in this episode. She gets more and more unreadable. Not that she was all that clear to begin with but that's going to be interesting.

Now Sam's way of dealing in "Mystery Spot" makes even ore sense. Because really Dean is the only he can count on now. Everybody else is getting killed off.
And it explains why Sam was willing to sacrifice Bobby, he was already contemplating it here.

Man, Sammy I am really, really close to being very, very worried about you.

So that's it until April (at least)? Hmmm... yes I can see why they changed the order around. Makes sense.
I liked most parts of this ep even though I was a little spoiled. But there are things I didn't like and that kinda makes the whole impression a bit darker than I thought it would be.
*sighs* Oh show, I still love you and I still love the guys but sometimes it seems as if you try to hard and fail in some aspects.
This ep seemed like ti was written too fast and just to be finished before the strike hits. Might a reason why the showdown felt a little rushed and a bit screwed up in perspective... and still I liked it.
*shrugs* What can I say I like Sammy all hard and fighting and hot...

Comments

[peaches.livejournal.com]

Sam is scaring me there. And apparently is scaring Dean, too.
*raises hand* me too! When Dean said he wanted to talk to Sam i actually said "and beat some sense into that thick scull of his while you're at it" out loud. heh! i do not approve of EVIL!Sam at all!!!

And I also agee that Katie is getting better. I mean, still, everytime i see her and think: that was a nice scene, my head still thinks a little "yeah, but she's still Katie Cassidy" afterthought. Because i am really not a fan of KC, ever since i saw the show she puts on at the airport when she has to leave for shooting... and the underage drinking and lying about it... but yeah, i think i'm getting over seeing katie and start seeing Ruby.

*and* yeah, it's really the easy way out, having the boys die so much they can't even be identified by dental records. i mean... come ON, it's 2008! (*but* now i have a nice mental image of the boys at the dentist in my head. awww!)

[the_milky_way]

Dude, I waited for Dean to get physical with Sam after the looks he shot him. I think they are pushing the antagonistic thing a bit too much... I mean we know Sam is supposed to be prepared for a life without Dean but does that mean he has to become totally ruthless? I think it's a way of Ruby to push him towards a certain way of acting.

I never saw the show she put on at the airport... Huh.. *shrugs*
I never really thought anything about Katie to beginn with but I can see she is improving. Might be hangin around the boys, because they can actually act (even if some people think differently).

Do the boys even have dental records in their names? Just wondering. Would fall out of canon wouldn't it? I can't see them going to check up and give their real names.
Maybe when they were in Highschool (and for Sam college).. Hmmm
But yes easy way out.. totally.

[peaches.livejournal.com]

Dude, I waited for Dean to get physical with Sam after the looks he shot him. I think they are pushing the antagonistic thing a bit too much... I mean we know Sam is supposed to be prepared for a life without Dean but does that mean he has to become totally ruthless? I think it's a way of Ruby to push him towards a certain way of acting.

They are *so* pushing it, which is sad, because Sam and Dean worked so well, because they were *Sam and Dean*! And, yes, character development, San can't be the cute little bunny forever, but they *are* pushing it. But, actually, the more I think about this scene, the more i compare it to Croatoan, where Dean doesn't hesitate to kill what's his name... Duane, because there is the slightest possibility that he has the Virus and in the end it turns out, that Duane is actually more evil than anything and killing him would have been good. Remember Sam? He begged Dean not to do it and Dean didn't.
Now Sam considers killing that girl, because there is a slight chance that she might save them and it's Dean who tells Sam not to do it... in the end... wrong choice.

There are pictures of her, making a *huge* scene - twice - at the airport. Crying at her boyfriend's shoulder, the whole deal, like she's never going to see him again. I mean, wth? Is that necessary?
Aww, that is a nice thought, the boys being so good that it rubs of on the people arounf them. I like that thought!

I suppose they have dental records in their name, like you said, from school and stuff, but the thought of Dean having to go to the dentist *now* is kind of strange/funny. I can see him bitching about a toothache for days and Sam telling him to go to the dentist. awwww!

[the_milky_way]

Yeah, you are right. It Is like some kind of reverse Croatoan scene and both times the moraly right thing to do turned out to be the bad choice in the end. Hmmm,... reverse psychology anyone???

Oh man, I know why I don't really like Katie. I mean I am mostly impartial to her but things like that.... They are not really worth it darling!
LOL, boys rub off on others but mostly on each other.

Dude, stop giving me bunnies. I am fighting with your prompts already I don't need one with a dentist tag to it. *pouts*

[slippery-fish.livejournal.com]

Lilith. They're abusing Lilith now. I think there was smoke coming out of my ears at that point. Grrr. Beside that, I liked the ep. Well, until Ruby came in and they showed the news and I just went "Wow, what a useless death. Fuck you."

So yeah, if they do something cool with Bela, let me know. Otherwise I'll just step away from that show, it's not good for my blood pressure. :(

And I really used to like it in season 1. :(

[the_milky_way]

Yes, besides that I liked the ep, too.

So yeah, if they do something cool with Bela, let me know

*snorts* Yeah, okay.
I am actually done with trying to hope for anythin for her.
I am so done with trying to see what they'll do next or if the can deal with their issues... it wouldn't be fun watching it anymore and I just love my boys too much to deal with that.
I hate that they screwing with my show but I still like watching it for most of the parts. It's not like other shows are better with issues, I am just not watching those.

It's like with Torchwood now, am only watching it for Ianto. And I am onyl watching SPN to see what happens to the boys (and well mabye Bobby, too).

I don't know.. it has changed a lot.. still love the Winchesters but it's different.

[slippery-fish.livejournal.com]

The problem with SPN and their issues is, that they do it with guest stars. They have no permant female or afroamerican presence on the show. If they fuck up with one character, they can't improve it anymore.
For example SGA: Teyla fights in these little flimy dresses, probably to make it easier for the male audience to like her and not to go "Argh! Scary woman could kick my ass!". But we get to see her being an actual person all the time, her character works against these clothing because she simply isn't the sexy bimbo. But that only works because she's on the show all the time.

Anyway, seems like several people start writing letters to Kripke and co now, maybe that helps.

*shrugs*

[the_milky_way]

I think one of the problems is that the characters aren't written to be African-American, they are just that after they got through casting (and even there they weren't looking for African-Americans)... There is no hint in the sides that either Gordon or Jake or Voctor were written to be Afroamericans (and during casting they were chosen because of their acting skills...). There is no real character which was meant to be Afroamerican.

The real problem they do have is women, no doubt about that.
But I doubt that letters to Kripke will help as long as the network exces want it that way.
I think they are trying with Ruby, problem is she is a demon and not an actual woman anymore.

[slippery-fish.livejournal.com]

The thing with casting is: They still leave no afroamerican male actor/character standing. And Hendrickson's death was useless, they could have let him live. Instead they go and kill the black guy again. So they still have a pretty bad pattern there, even if it's caused by "let the best actor do the job" or bad writing. I'm sure they don't do it intentionally, but they still do it. *shrugs*

Ruby...Don't get me started on Ruby. One of the two kickass women is a demon. A demon who has to be saved by men after it becomes clear that she once was human. Because all human womem are weak. *headdesk*

The thing is, their audience is made up of women, mostly. Pissing them off until more and more of them stop watching the show is just dumb. No matter who makes that choice. Maybe the fans should write letters to the network as well.

[the_milky_way]

I think it would have happened if the actor had been Caucasian or Asian or whatever. Sure; they have the bad habit to kill of the Afroamericans and sure it's not cool, it never is if you watch from a minority aspect (but which show especialy on bigger networks actually have a decent number of permanent characters that are not clichéd in a way or another?).
I would have wanted to keep Victor because he was a cool character and not because they desperately need an AfricanAmerican in their show.

I doubt they actually want to save Ruby that way.
I am not really trying to get too deep into it because that would take the fun away from watching *any* show on TV (and not just SPN). I hate overanalyzing stuff because it doesn't change a thing and just gets me depressed and angry and that's not why I am watching. And I don't need to feel sorry for any wrong portrayal of women just because I am one. There sure as hell are enough clichéd portrayal of men out there and no one really gets riled up over that.

Writting to the network? The CW? Yeah.. might help...
And the thing is, a lot of women watching the show are not pissed off or offended (even if they are African American). I have been reading through a lot after the last ep and there are a lot of opinions out there but none of those are the majority. And to be true, highest scoring in rating among women (18 - 49) doesn't really say they are losing this audience.

[slippery-fish.livejournal.com]

Oh, I wanted to keep him because he's a great character as well, not because of his skin colour, but that and the fact that it might have happened too if he was white doesn't make the pattern anymore disturbing. And other networks not being any better doesn't help either, it just means that the TV industry has a big problem. *pokes TV industry* And discussing it, pointing it out, writing letters (if you're in the US and can actually do that) is probably the only way to do something against it. Which is just sad. Ignoring it just enforces the problem even more.

Makes we wonder, do we actually have a German TV show where that problem is so obvious? I'm not watching enough German TV to see that.

Unfortunately, once I see those problems in a show, I can't "unsee" them. Makes me glad I'm an ensemble show fan because those usually get a better grip on those issues thanks to their format (although there are always moments when they fail).
It's not that I analyze the shows that much, I just see it and once I do I'm already that pissed off that it makes me run away, cursing.
Of course, I don't always see them, I still wonder where the hell the race problem in SGA is suppossed to be, but never mind that. And if a show manages to level it out, I can "live" with it as well, although it doesn't keep me from bitching. *grumbles at certain scenes in the last LOST ep*

The thing with people not getting disturbed that much by reverse sexism is, that in academia reverse sexism doesn't exist, the same way reverse racism doesn't exist. Because of the white male privilege, the "isms" only work from the majority group to the minority group, not the other way around. *shrugs*
I'm not sure what to think of that, I think it works as an idea in society because those structure truly do not work the other way around (there's almost no society in which women are not the oppressed, objectified group, the same goes for skin colour) but it doesn't work on a personal level, because there you can turn it around quite easily.
And I don't like how the idea just reduces everything to "good vs. bad" with the battle lines so clearly drawn.

From what I've seen in various posts, it seems as if people give the show a chance until the end of the season or can't let go because of the boys. And man, do I get that. I wouldn't be any better with Torchwood or Lost if the race/gender issues would get stronger there.

Which reminds me, did you read musesfool's post (http://musesfool.livejournal.com/1519843.html) on the whole thing? Very interesting, especially the part about the first season. I actually never saw it that way.

[the_milky_way]

It sure as hell is an issue of the whole industry and as long as the majority of people ois watching it will bot really change. And as long as those issues are so deeply implemented into society TV is only a mirror of that and it will not change at all. It's sad that shows are the battel ground but wehre else can *normal* people do that and actually have some force to show their opinions?
It's just a judgement about society whether it is good or bad... And yes it totally is a generalization.

Hmmm good question. I doubt we have issues that way because we do have a different history and development of society. I don't know but I think sometimes Turkish people get the roles AfricanAmericans have on US TV. I watch too few German shows to really be able to comment on that but it would be interesting to look into that.

*g* I can try and "unsee" them but yeah once you have the focus on that it's hard because it's pissing you off every single time. I had shows like that, too but then I never really like them to begin with. And to be hinest if I really do like a show I am tempted to overlook most things and letother people do the bashing or discussing or whatever (it sure is important to discuiss stuff like that but I am either way to involved emotionally to be willing to do that or I just don't see it that way). And I have way too few shows I really love and well, I have been constantly watching and think I see the changes and issues but not so much that I would turn away (not yet anyway, you never know what will happen in the new season and so on).

Bitching though is one of the ways to deal with stuff... Man, I think I haven't been bitching that much about SPN before because I do see those things (and that actually makes me sad on a very emotional level).

"Isms" are always things you either see or not see and they are a matter of perspective and views. And yes majority always plays a role but I think it might be healthy to have a view going against majority.
The thing with TV shows is, it is always about "good vs. bad" and not about to educate society. The problem is that is seen as and supposed to be entertainment. And yes, I am not really sure what to think about it either.

I think a lot of people don't know what to think of where the show is heading right now. There has been a lot of pressuire form TPTB and looking at other CW shows that's no wonder that they are dealing with women like that (and especially considering all the myth stuff they have going and on sometimes hack to pieces in a not so flatrering way).

And yes I read her post and I agree with a lot of things she wrote but not all of them. But true the first two season have had a different touch to them and that was before the writing staff was called into the CW headquarters before season 3 and since they actually kind fired Raelle (which might have been a big mistake considering the development).
I seriously go with peaches here, Kripke got way too excited about his own ideas and now gets bored by them, which you can see sometimes. Makes me sad as well.

And still considering all that I still love my show, which I know is not really justifiable but I am not trying to because I know I'd lose if I'd really try... I am not willing to give up on it yet and I am not willing to take at lkeast some good things away from myself.. *sighs*

Man, I know I have problems.. :)
The strange thing is I see all those things in Torchwood.
Meeep... I love my boys (and yes I know there is a reason why I am so into RPS when it comes to the show... less issues.. if you can even say that.. *snorts*

[slippery-fish.livejournal.com]

With me it's the other way around: When I'm passionate about a show, I start to see its flaws. Because then my brain and my heart is into it and I can't ignore it. I mean, I used to love SPN, that's why I saw its flaws.

Hmmm, not every show is about "good vs. bad", there are some who make the effort to blur the lines.
LOST does, although sometimes the divisions they create are a bit forced.
BtVs did at times, too, but they failed with what they tried to do as well (or maybe they didn't fail but only tried to show that their characters were wrong about "good vs. bad", I'm not sure about that). Torchwood fails at "good vs. bad" but that's mainly because of the bad writing regarding Jack's judgement on what kind of alien is bad and what kind of alien is good. And when you start to interpret aliens as "the other" you just end up with very interesting problems regarding TW...

I'm really curious if SPN will improve again. Because the universe Kripke has created is simply awesome. Also, it's made for spin offs. Jo, as a hunter. Bela, as a thief (I'd kill to watch that). A show about the roadhouse before it burned down, with all the hunters, their issues, their battles. All the people who found out about the supernatural and how they deal with that. There's so much potential there...

Argh, if I keep on thinking of potential I'Ll just remember Hendrickson and get pissed off again. Dean and him had such great chemistry and it would have been so cool to see the FBI help out the boys sometimes. *flails* The lost awesomeness!

And RPS saves the day. As usual. :D

[the_milky_way]

Call me lame.. :) just don't want to see it with shows I like. So I am glad I don't have that many shows I do like.. ;) Even though I do see it becasue I can't ignore it. It's rather that I refuse to think about it (well not really because I do... I think I am not making sense anymore *hides*).
Hypocritical I know.. *shrugs*

I agree with the Buffy and Torchwood problems. The quesrtion of "the other" is always hard to get by or to define in a good way. It makes things harder I guess.

Oh don't get me wrong I am curious as hell where SPn is going but right now I am simply not cloe to getting too deep into it without killing my love for the show. Not willing to.. :=)

But dude, Dean and Victor??? That was chemistry and I loved seeing it. I wanted to keep Victor and they could have done so much with him. And they just chose the easy way out and that in itself creates porblems for the boys again (at least I thinkn so).

I have issues with Bela but those are my personal ones and maybe because I don't see a lot of reason behind some of her actions. But I don't hate her or anything (I leave that field and that wasting energy to other people. I have a life... uhm.. smetimes at least I pretend I have one).

And RPS saves the day. As usual. :D

Thanks for making me laugh at my inbox... because that sentence can't be any truer. I love my boys. *nods*

[slippery-fish.livejournal.com]

Dean/Victor forever and ever OMG! Well, they would have made good friends, too. And both the boys need friends, someone outside of this brother thing...

[the_milky_way]

Dean/Victor forever and ever OMG!

*giggles* Exactly *fangirls*

They would have been awesome friends.
And yes they do need friends, as many as they can get when they really facing everything what is planned.